Charlie Kirk: In the Presence of Christ!
What does this mean?
Revelation 6:9–11 (NLT)
“9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. 10 They shouted to the Lord and said, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?’ 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters— their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.”
Before you read this article, allow me to explain why it matters that we talk about the realities of heaven—especially what I call the Present Heaven (or the Pre-New Heaven) as defined in Scripture. Too many in modern Christendom treat heaven as well as the people that reside there, as a fanciful, unreal, or detached reality—utterly unlike earth. When heaven is described in these unreal ways, conversations about it get marginalized. I believe Scripture teaches there is real continuity between our identities on earth and our identities in heaven.
Naturally, many non-believers dismiss heaven (and hell for that matter) because they see no connection between life on earth and what comes after. In recent years one of my favorite topics—whether with believers or skeptics—has been the reality of eternity. We will all live forever; the question is where, and with whom.
A wonderful godly man asked me an excellent question:
“As we know, God makes all things work for good. The assassination of Charlie Kirk, which was a terrible tragedy, has already expanded his influence. Clearly that is a positive.
My question for you deals with Charlie’s ascendency into Heaven. His family and many of those who were close to him or impacted by him feel the void and are suffering. My question is, does the new resident in Heaven experience any sadness due to the separation from loved ones? Your scholarship is appreciated.”
My first response
The question again: “Does the new resident in Heaven experience any sadness due to the separation from loved ones?”
My answer: Yes. I believe he does—likely with a greater, understanding than we can imagine, because he is in the presence of Jesus Christ with stronger, holy emotions, clarity, and understanding than we have on earth. I do not believe those in heaven are so frail that they are shielded from godly grief or godly sorrow as we await Christ’s final return and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth.
All grief is not bad. Far too often, people assume all grief—or even all anger—is wrong. In Revelation 6:9–11, godly people who have been martyred for their faith clearly experience emotions and even ask the Lord, (probably with a little godly anger, as I read the text,) legitimate questions concerning suffering and martyrdom. Please read the passage again, slowly.
Revelation 6 is staggering. I do not claim to understand it all, but what is written is clear, isn’t it? At the end of this article I’ve listed ten observations about some of the realities of the pre-new heaven, from the passage.
I believe Charlie is grieving, yet he is also caught up in the larger reality of how holy and just Yahweh God is—and that evil will be judged by a righteous God. He now shares God’s perspective on suffering and persecution, as Jesus taught:
Matthew 5:10–12 (NLT)
“10 God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
11 ‘God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers.
12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.’”
Verse 12 is poignant: “For a great reward awaits you in heaven.”
My answer, restated
Yes, he is grieving—but with vivid, eternal understanding that rests in God’s sovereignty (His ultimate rule).
Look how his precious wife is using her grief to carry on his ministry with boldness. If more of us allowed holy grief to motivate us—even when we are not facing persecution or death—perhaps our communication of God’s truth would look different.
What a privilege it is to serve and please our Living Lord.
Colossians 1:10 (LSB)
“So that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and multiplying in the full knowledge of God.”
Thank you for the excellent question. I welcome your responses and feedback.
In Christ,
Dale
A follow-up perspective (and my reply)
A godly man chimed in and offered an AI overview to the same question: “Does the new resident in Heaven experience any sadness due to separation from loved ones?”
AI Overview (summarized):
“No—there will be no sadness in heaven (cf. Revelation 21:4). Heaven is complete joy, free from pain, mourning, crying, and sorrow—the products of sin.”
My further thoughts
Revelation 21:4 is the most cited verse on the absence of sorrow in heaven:
Revelation 21:4 (NKJV)
“And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
But Revelation 21 refers to the final New Heavens and New Earth—our eternal home. That is not where Charlie (or any believer who dies now) currently is.
Scripture indicates an intermediate heaven—what I call the Present Heaven (or Pre-New Heaven)—where those who die in Christ are with Christ. Believers there, I think, exist in pre-resurrected “heavenly dwellings” (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:2).
(2 Corinthians 5:2 NASB) “For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven…”
For a helpful treatment of this, see Randy Alcorn’s Heaven, chapters 6–7 (pp. 51–70). It’s superb.
Philippians 1:23 (NKJV)
“For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.”
Luke 16:22 (NKJV)
“So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.”
(Please read Luke 16:19–31 thoroughly.) “Abraham’s bosom” describes this present heaven, which Jesus also calls Paradise when speaking to the thief on the cross (Luke 23:42–43).
The Present Heaven and the Eternal Heaven are not the same. We can be certain that on the New Earth there will be no sorrow—because death and pain will be no more. But that promise follows the end of the present order, after the Great White Throne Judgment. That is not now.
Once again,I reiterate, God’s people in the Present Heaven are not so frail that their joy can only be maintained by shielding them from earth’s realities. Happiness in heaven is not based on ignorance but on perspective.
Those in Christ’s presence now find great joy in worship, righteousness, and rich fellowship in a sinless environment. They are likely receiving Christ’s rewards for righteous deeds (cf. Rev. 19:8; 2 Corinthians. 5:10). And because God is continually at work on earth, I believe the saints in the Present Heaven observe—to some degree—what happens here (cf. Hebrews 12:1). They have much to praise Him for, including God drawing people to Himself (cf. Luke 5:7, 10). I believe Charlie is seeing and rejoicing because people are following Christ because of his prior efforts and the many who now carry on his work.
Residents in the present heaven also look forward to Christ’s return, bodily resurrection, final judgment, and the making of the New Earth and the New Heaven. Only then will all evil, suffering, and sorrow be forever gone, and we will experience the fullness of joy Christ purchased for us on the Cross.
Once again, I am not short on verbiage.
I’d love to hear your comments—and feel free to share these thoughts with your friend.
What a wonderful man of God he is.
In Christ,
Dale
My Observations on Revelation 6:9–11
Like the Bereans, let’s examine the Scriptures with eagerness:
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
“Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”
Please consider these ten observations:
#1 — v. 9
The people in the Present Heaven are the very ones who were killed for Christ on earth. This shows direct continuity between our earthly identity and our heavenly identity. We will be recognizable in our temporary heavenly dwelling, and later receive resurrected bodies at the Rapture of the Church.
Hang on, gang—verse 10 is packed!
#2 — v. 10
“They called out in a loud voice.” They can express themselves audibly and raise their voices. This suggests some form of embodied existence (a temporary “dwelling” of some sort). They are rational, communicative, emotional, and passionate.
#3 — v. 10
Those in the Present Heaven (and, I assume, in the Eternal Heaven) are free to ask God questions. They have an audience with God. This implies learning in heaven and a desire for understanding. Thrilling!
#4 — v. 10
People in the Present Heaven know what’s happening on earth—at least to some degree. The martyrs know their murderers have not yet been judged.
#5 — v. 10
Present-Heaven dwellers have a deep concern for justice and retribution. We won’t become passive about earth’s affairs. Our longing for justice will likely be more passionate, reflecting God’s own righteous character (cf. Deuteronomy 16:20 NASB). Neither God nor we will be satisfied until His enemies are judged, our bodies raised, sin and Satan defeated, earth restored, and Christ exalted over all. Please you all stop now and Praise Yahweh God for these realities.
#6 — v. 10
The martyrs remember their lives on earth—even their murders. Thus, I believe Charlie knows he was martyred for his faith and longs for God’s justice. This in no way diminishes the joy of Christ’s presence. Revelation 6 does not depict heaven as abstract or emotionless; rather, it is fully human—purified and holy.
#7 — v. 11
“Then a white robe was given to each of them.” Individuals are distinct. Robes suggest embodiment of some kind. Moses and Elijah appeared in recognizable form at the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:3–4). John has no trouble recognizing them in white robes. (On a lighter note, even “Casper” had a form so we could grasp his reality!) It’s staggering—and wonderful.
#8 — vv. 10–11
There is time in the Present Heaven. The martyrs ask, “How long…?” God answers that they must wait a little longer—which requires the passing of time.
#9 — v. 11
God promises fulfillment, but not yet. Present-Heaven saints live in anticipation of God’s promises. Unlike the Eternal Heaven—where there is no sin, curse, or suffering (Revelation 21:4)—the Present Heaven looks on while earth still groans under the curse.
#10 — v. 11
Our sovereign God knows every detail—every drop of blood shed, every pain His children endure. The Voice of the Martyrs estimates that more than 150,000 people die for Christ each year (over 400 per day). God knows each name and story. He knows exactly how many martyrs there will be. In my humble opinion, I believe Charlie is being recognized and justly rewarded as a most outstanding martyr for the Lord Jesus Christ. May his tribe increase.
Concluding Thoughts
I believe memory is a basic element of personality. If we are truly ourselves in heaven, there must be continuity of memory from earth to heaven. We will not be different people, but the same people—marvelously relocated and transformed. We will be cleansed by Christ’s blood, but our origins and history are not erased. We will remember God’s works of grace that comforted, assured, sustained, and empowered us to live for Him.
SELAH. Pause and ponder these things.
Looking forward to being in Christ’s Presence,
Dale